If you look at the history of ideologically-based civil wars, the odds most certainly do not favor the more conservative sides. The Spanish Civil War was one of the few in which the socialists were ultimately defeated, and yet, neither Franco nor the Phalange were ever embraced by the Right throughout the West.
I’ve been reading James Burnham’s Suicide of the West, and one of the things that is particularly shocking is his 39-question poll which divides the conservatives of 1965 from liberal-progressives. I’ll post it later today, as it shows very clearly that today’s conservatives are yesterday’s progressives.
I would point out there is a big difference between who wins, and the long term effect they have on mankind. Despite Vox’s historical analysis, humans have not devolved back to the state of r-selected rabbits yet. Although he can cite numerous cases where the left won, the cases where the right won were so affecting and K-ifying, they undid any gains the left attained, and brought humans right back to K-selection. The next Apocalypse is shaping up to be such a hard reset.
All of that said, this debate ignores the elephant in the room – Cabal. Personally, given things I have seen, I am not sure any major societal event in at least the last two hundred years in western civilization, ever happened honestly, without being engineered and scripted by some behind-the-scenes planners.
Given that, I could understand why leftists would win battles for power more often in history. If I were Cabal, big-government-loving leftists who want everyone’s freedom constrained by an all powerful authority structure would be my choice to win every time, over freedom-loving, aggressive, scary, independent small government conservatives. When you control the debate through media outlets, that is easy to arrange. I am sure conservative victories occurred in those rare cases where a zeitgeist overran the media’s ability to mold a narrative, forcing Cabal to field rightist leaders, and guide them to victory.
I suspect this Cabal influence is why today, our intellectual conservative leaders are not representative of the grassroots. Those that rise rapidly and dominate the debate through mass media promotion are selected and promoted by forces which we still do not fully understand. Ben Shapiro probably thinks guns are yucky, though he can understand on a purely intellectual level why some of us should maybe be allowed to own them. Jordan Peterson would run like the wind from a physical fight, probably even if his family were threatened – and think it common sense. Both are very different from the grassroots they claim to speak for. Our “conservative leadership” is a sham, foisted on us by a con, and is not representative of where the movement would go unguided.
If Trump has his way, we may be unguided soon, but that may be a really big “if.”
Where we are really weak, and where we may lose the battle, and may have already lost it, is in understanding the threat of Cabal, and the machinery of control it has amassed in the nation. Things have gone farther than any of our grassroots understand or would believe. Right now, they know who you are, if you are reading this. You are on the list. Don’t believe me? You will one day.
I suspect there is a plan in place, that when the bottom drops out, the clampdown will come hard and fast, and they know exactly who they are going to take out. I preach this here pinning my hopes on a low probability I might one day add something to someone’s knowledgebase at a critical moment, and help real Americans create a freer future one day. But I fully accept, given what I know about the scope of this thing, that it is a higher likelihood my efforts will amount to a pointless struggle.
So Vox implies that when the decision point comes, the deciding factor will be an open fight between right and left, where the population of individuals will set its own course.
I maintain that as of this moment, the idea of the population in America ever setting its own course of governance and power-assignation, even through struggle among the various players, is the American Myth. As of right now, there are mechanisms in place for a select unknown few to seize total control, and call the outcome which will benefit them the most regardless of what everyone else would desire.
Until the freedom-lovers of the nation understand that (and the machinery Cabal employs fully understands what they are really doing, and for who), I am not sure there would even be a Civil War.
And if there was, its outcomes, and those who will gain total control through it, will never be in question. And it will never be regular citizens of either side, no matter which side wins.
Tell others about r/K Theory, because the clock is ticking down
I took Vox’s post as an assessment of NRO types like Goldberg and French who can never seem to win anything. I did not take it as an evaluation of the right wingers who are more aware of what’s going on and have taken (or are taking) the necessary precautions.
At one time I was a subscriber and believer in NR – no longer. There are undoubtedly countless others making the same trek as they see the left come more unglued.
If the food stops showing up and the lights go out, there’s no telling what’ll happen, although being a city dwelling white sh*tlib would be the last thing on earth I’d want to be.
In Spain, the communists killed priests and nuns, and dug up the coffins of nuns and opened them up in front of churches as some sort of macabre punch to the nose. You don’t see that without realizing it’s going to be a fight to the bitter end.
I still like our chances a great deal – particularly as the left has wanted few things more than disarming us. There’s a reason for that.
I fail to see where the Right/conservatives/traditionalists ever won. The American Revolution, the Loyalists, i.e. the true conservatives, lost out to liberals/leftists, the FFofA were Liberal pragmatists and also revolutionaries. The French Revolution–the right/traditionalists lost. The American Civil War, the conservatives lost. Abraham Lincoln was a reader of Karl Marx, said Labor must control capital, was the leader of “Red Republicans”. The Republican party as founded, was by radical progressives! The Spanish Civil War, Franco won the battles–but still lost; when he died, Spain still turned into a leftist hellhole.
What makes a conservative is hardness. The Left is soft has no discipline, no virtue. The left is the easy road. No one wants the hard road—so conservatism always loses in the end. It is the Law of Entropy. All things tend to dissolve. Lycurgus solved that by making it so that the Spartan society was always at war and making sure the helots were enraged so that his people would never slack. But all things in the human world tend toward effeminacy in general. Nowhere is the Virtue of Manliness being taught.
I hold out no hope.
AC, I read your blog semi-daily. White men have too much to lose in this nation, and they won’t fight back until their McMansions are being attacked in the ‘burbs. Even then, they might not fully understand to whom they ought to render their fury.
Also: may I suggest a proprietary/dedicated comment section? Using Disqus probably turns many a would-be commenter away from offering their insight into your posts. I’m sure such a feature isn’t cheap, but the weight of your words warrants a space where we can talk and further the goals of your site.
Thank you.
Vox Day also swears that Nationalism is inevitable, so take it with a grain of salt. One thing that I’ve noticed Trump doing is sucking up to the military. Admittedly, there are a lot of Obama fags in prominent places in the military, but the warriors are almost, to a man, supportive of Trump. If there are enough K selected officers, and the Cabal is unable to count on the military, Trump stands a chance. I’m pretty sure the Colonels, Captains, and Sergeants are Trump supporters. And, who fights the wars? Not desk jockey generals, which are often Obama appointees. If his military supporters see a coup aimed at Trump, we might have a Caesar that crosses the Rubicon.
I think there’s a reason why the left constantly demonizes the police, the military and gun owners. These people are still not totally under their control, and they know they’re the biggest threat to their plans.
Reminder that Trump creating the Space Force allows him the opportunity to set up a new “section” (I can’t recall the correct word) of the Armed Forces that if it makes use of extreme vetting on the hiring process, it allows the “section” to have no moles at all.
So you don’t necessarily disagree with Vox’s prediction of the outcome a prospective civil war, but disagree about the deciding factor. For VD, the deciding factor is to be found in the widespread acceptance of various leftist dogmas even among conservatives which Burnham (yesterday’s progressives). Trump seems to be the epitome of this. He accepts (or appears to accept) all manner of the various doctrines – very much in the old-fashioned classical liberal mode of JFK, who happens to be a hero of DJT. The one thing Trump sees (allegedly, according to Q and the chans) is the pernicious activity of the Cabal. If you’re right, that could be enough to prevent a civil war.
The list of 39 questions, which VD indeed posted the next day, is quite a good one. I was somewhat surprised that I answered nearly all of them “no” or “disagree” (which makes me a real reactionary). I know I would not have done as well on those questions a decade ago. The interesting thing about VD’s echo of Burnham here is that the basic observation about the nature of conservatism is correct. The late Larry Auster used to make this point all the time. That’s why he created the term “unprincipled exception(s)” which are regularly employed by “conservatives” as an exception to the underlying agreement with the progressive egalitarian agenda. Of course those who swallow this agenda – which is ultimately a great lie – are much more likely to deny the existence of the cabal, whose agenda it has been for at least 150 years.
The one conservative victory cited, Spain, was actually a case where the left was stomped – for a while. The cabal was very patient though, for the Spanish admiral who might have continued Franco’s genuinely rightist government of church, king and country was likely killed by the cabal not long after Spain made the mistake of joining NATO, possibly at the orders of deep-state swamp-creature Henry Kissinger (Dr. Strangelove himself). Spain is now a socialist-run dump where the ruling wymyn are allowing a full invasion from Africa – even taking in the boatloads of ‘youths’ sent back by the new regime in Italy. The old Latin mass Catholicism of Franco’s Spain was infiltrated by pedophiles (cabal at work again) starting in the 1920s and we now see its full fruition in the bathhouse known as the Vatican under Antipope Franny the Fabulous.
If conservatives do indeed lose an upcoming civil war, it’ll be because instead of picking up a rifle and dropping their share of AntiFa, most Conservatives will turn to the government and get them to “solve” the problem by handing over their rights for the promise of security.
That said, I think it was actually the conservatives who won the first civil war (or at least the staunchest followers of Western Values).
Seeing the political state as the MEANS by which improvement will arrive is itself the essence of Leftism, and your comment highlights (to me) how pervasive is leftist theology…even people who consider themselves “of the right” are still left. We were all raised in the Left Theocracy. Its premises saturate our very cells, and squeezing its poisonous beliefs from our minds is a herculean task.
AC, the Left (which is a religion of hope, raised to the pathological level of wish-fulfillment) was the trend since the Protestant Reformation, where instead of Catholicism’s fatalism the notion that men could “buy their way into Heaven by deeds” emerged.
The last 50 years were the final wave up in an Elliott Wave impulse dating back to the 1600’s (at least.) It is reasonable to see it this way because, despite the exponentially rising top-line, the underlying fundamentals are in visible collapse, a typical situation in 5th waves (the final impulsive wave in sequence before a significant change in trend, i.e., a trend gets internally weaker prior to reversal.)
I think the Right is poised to be the trend during the next major phase. Unfortunately, none of us alive has seen anything remotely Rightist, and we don’t have a conception of it. The Right is, paradoxically, anything that’s Not Left. This means that as people diverge from The Left, “The Right” can be mutually contradictory and/or immiscible forms. This means that The Right today is:
–devolution of power from center to periphery.
–disorder, chaos, breakdowns.
–self-destruction of previously monolithic institutions.
We see this daily. The MSM is performing seppuku before our very eyes. The relevance of the FedGov is slated to collapse when its ability to borrow craters under rising interest rates. All large-scale things on which we depend are slated to crumble as the consent to their existence evaporates, whether we consciously like it or not.
This is the Right. We may or may not like the path ahead, but no living system is static.
One thing Vox left unstated in his post, and I do not want to put words in his mouth, but I’m going off of past statements best has said:
The alt- right is inevitable.
The alt- right are not conservatives.
*My* conclusion is that if the Right does win, it will be because of us rejecting those that spent the last 50 years losing, and embracing the ones that will fight and aren’t concerned about image. They’ll likely be branded fascists, and it’s possible that in order to win they’ll be indistinguishable from the fascists of Spain or Chile.
Thanks for bringing this up. Unfortunately, we don’t know the full extent cabal control over a very long period of time (1000’s of years). We can see their influence in about a 200 year period. How deep/embedded was it 200 years ago? How much of an influence would that have on people? I wish I could study their history.
Carroll Quigley, in Tragedy and Hope, had access to such information. But, he agreed with the Cabal’s plan.
You make your best point last. There is no need or threat of civil war. The powers that be are not losing control. If anything they are allowing Trump to make a bit of noise and help his white and alienated base blow off steam while accomplishing little or nothing in the longer term relative to “cabal,” aims.
And for what it’s worth that same control means it’s unlikely anyone has to bag and tag you or your readers. That would be a colossal waste of resources given how little impact the entire 2016 reaction has had on the overall d demographic and cultural trajectory of the state.
Anytime discouragement creeps in, read Psalm 37.
The Cabal thinks it acts cleverly and secretly. Everything will unravel so rapidly that they won’t have time to turn around and spit.
There is a Scripture passage, I don’t remember where it is, but the image is of a man whose face is red with shame, and in order to hide his shame, he lifts his robe to cover his red face, and only brings more shame upon himself because now,everyone can see what a small man he is. That is what will happen with the Cabal.
“the cases where the right won were so affecting and K-ifying, they undid any gains the left attained, and brought humans right back to K-selection.”
Is it victories by the right that bring humans right back to K-selection, or rather the collapse and hardship after the left wins too many victories for to long. If K re-emerges following a collapse, can that be called a victory, or is it simply a natural swing-back reset of the pendulum?
Both, IMO. The r’s trigger K through gradually increasing disorder, and then the K they trigger through the disorder creates a comfort with/adaptation to disorder that makes possible a conflagration that drives even more K, until everyone accepts that everything must be destroyed and built anew. Then, in the newly rebuilt, hyper-ordered world, the K’s that built it set about being super-productive, and that begins the slide back to r.
But AC, what happens if the r-selected do a better job of genociding the k-selected this go around? How will k-selection reoccur then, seeing as behavior tends to regress to the mean over a few generations?
K is like coevolution. The same thing can evolve in different places completely independently, simply because it is the best way of doing things. Kill every K, leave just the SJW rabbits, and they will collapse the society, and next thing you know you have K-selection again. And even with all rabbit breeding stock, K will reemerge, simply because it is the best way to reproduce in that environment.
Echoing other commenters the sure way of true victory is according to Sun Tzu “defeating the enemy’s strategy.”
To ensure dominance of K’s they must defeat the r-strategy. This means cutting the support out from under the r-strategy.
And ensuring permanent K.
Yes there was and remains a malevolent shadow guiding America. You are correct that every major thing was a set up. But here’s the thing – the first rule of warfare is that no plan survives first contact with the enemy. You can set things up to go your way, but you can never be truly certain of a thing until it happens because the enemy might know something you don’t. They plant seeds, and reap harvests later, but it doesn’t mean that harvest is guaranteed.
The reason that they are going insane is that it’s been so long since their machinations were successfully countered that they have no idea how to respond it. They are out of practice in their own speciality.
Personally, I believe that Mark Taylor may indeed be a prophet(http://www_sordrescue_com/). His assertion that America is being rescued as a base of operations for one last big push by God before the Tribulation rings true to me. That is why when I look at what’s happening with Trump, I see a counter-intelligence operation at work. I see a man that volunteered to make himself bait so that the fisherman could bag the predators that would come for him. And for one brief moment in time America will be what the myth always promised, if only to facilitate the last bit of missionary work left before the fullness of the time of the gentiles and the removal of the restraining influence of God’s people from the Earth.
So for one shining time in history, the guilty shall be made to answer for their crimes. Indeed, they will be hung on the gallows they ordered built for God’s people. The country will prosper as it has never done before to fulfil this last missionary push.
Like Q said, there won’t be a civil war. What they will reveal will give the most devout partisan second thoughts.
War is usually fought between K-groups, not r and K groups.
r is difficult to defeat in out right war because they won’t fight.
However the great collapses in the past have happend through exhaustion and collapse of the r-selected society.
Hate, rien, Hate. Hate is a great motivator. The basic block of the left in Spain were anarchists. They are a r group. They hated the monarchy and the Roman Catholic Church and that hate drove them to kill. Look at the Anti-fa. Violence, burning, smashing, attacking other people. All based on Hate. Hate is the great motivator.
It’s worth noting that Vox sees a difference between “Conservatives” and the “Nationalist Right” as defined by the 16 points he outlined a couple years ago:
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html
“Conservatives” are not K-selected folks, but r-selected folks who have adopted the lexicon and superficial mannerisms of being K-selected, but do not exhibit the actual behaviors beyond what is necessary to fulfill their role as the controlled opposition to the Cabal.
When push comes to shove, their r-selected priorities always come bubbling back to the surface.
This was part of why Trump was so terrible for them, because he’d hold them to their words and then mock the disparity between what they said and what they did. He didn’t play their game.
In this sense, Vox isn’t saying that K-selected folks are going to lose, but the socially popular and media-friendly “Conservatives” like Graham and McCain and Romney will readily surrender their voiced ideals to “keep the peace”.
Labels were subverted for a reason.
The calls to moderation, the “right of center”, and so on are a siren song that will only lead the ship to be dashed upon the rocks. That, as I’ve said before, Q is a necessary stepping stone, but not “enough”.
I’d argue the reason Vox is saying this is that folks are really starting to “wake up” to how very difficult it is going to be to right the ship, to “fix” it instead of just rebuilding from ashes. People keep asking for exemptions, crying out like Jesus in Gethsemane, “If there is any other way, please let this cup pass from me.”
But they’re realizing that those rationalizations are identical to the Muslim or the Mormon, the Mexican and the Middle Easterner, and that honestly they’re no more “American” than the people they blame for all the problems going on.
This is why, rather than continue to fight, they’ll simply abandon the ideals they never really were committed to, and would “lose” in a Civil War, while only actually submitting to the “side” they were on the entire time, leaving everyone else to hang.
Survival is selfish, and WWG1WGA denies that.
A black co-worker has an Asian wife who got offended at a white woman for asking her to come over using a hand gesture that, in her native country, is apparently only reserved for calling a dog, so using it with a person is offensive. The problem is, we’re not in that Asian country, and so if even legal immigrants have failed to assimilate, failing to reject their past and old cultural connections which absolutely must be destroyed for national unity to be possible, then even the people groups which are not directly responsible for violence and conflict will be in time.
When that time comes, many “Conservatives” will abandon the cause because the conflict will have become personal, and their lofty ideals no longer suit their circumstances. I predict that’ll be when the violence gets really bad because that’s when folks who are genuinely on “the right” will no longer believe that the system can be fixed from within the system.
That’s the only thing which has restrained people so far, the belief that things can still be fixed. When that’s gone, the real excitement will begin.
Please pardon me being off topic but I ran across this picture of Jim Carrey and it freaked me out. Wow. At least he’s not split different on one side of his face from the other. He looks haggard from both sides equally. He looks “wounded” in some way.
Wow. The mouth is hyper disgust, which with those nasolabial lines make me thing early childhood sexual abuse, and a lot of pain. He’s in bad shape. I’m noticing a lot of Holywoodites seem to be like that.
They used to say politics is Hollywood for ugly people. More and more, I am thinking Hollywood is Politics for those willing to endure any pain and degredation to be famous.
Wow, hide everything above and below the eyes.
That look of trying to smile to hide pain… I see… Mitt Romney
>If you look at the history of ideologically-based civil wars, the odds most certainly do not favor the more conservative sides. The Spanish Civil War was one of the few in which the socialists were ultimately defeated
The man is shockingly historically illiterate.
The majority of the 48ers (Spring of Nations, People’s Spring, Springtime of the Peoples) failed, and that was a wave which affected about four dozen different countries. In Italy the 48ers ruled for 18 months before the Bourbons regained control. In France, they lasted 4 years before the Second French Empire retook control. They failed completely in Germany. In Denmark, they gained only some concessions from the King. They failed in Hungary, they failed in Sweden, they failed in Poland, they failed in Belgium with Karl Marx himself involved, and they failed in Ireland. In Galicia and Switzerland they had success.
While the commies succeeded in Tsarist Russia – eventually, with wealthy Jews abroad, including Jacob Schiff in America, grandfather of some well-known Schiffs doing damage to America today – they had previously failed in 1905 (producing only some constitutional reforms) and had been trying for over half a century, through groups like Narodnaya Volya (“People’s Will”) and the preceding Zemlya i Volya (“Land and Liberty”).
Following the end of WWI, the November Revolution in Germany only partially succeeded because Germany had been decimated. The commie Spartacist Uprising was put down by the Freikorps.
France’s de Gaulle survived the 68ers.
Overall I’d have to say that the odds are overwhelmingly on the “conservative” i.e. nationalist and non-commie/Jew side of things, but the thing is, they only need to win ONCE whereas we need to win every time.
In the first battles, the left lost—but eventually won! Europe is lost! The Leftist/Marxist values are succeeding across the West and its diaspora. In 1848, they lost—but in the long haul—the long march thru the institutions, THEY WON!
Why they lost in 1848, was the still residual strength of the Catholic Church! Conservatism lies in the Catholic Church in those days. The bulwark of the unity of European societies at that time was Catholic. It was Catholics that led put those rebellions down. The residual traditional patriarchical Catholic institutions were there.
America HAS NONE OF That!
Let me ask this—-what is the plan AFTER this coming civil war????? What? There are twenty-thousand ideologies in America. There is no unity of thought. There is no core leadership. No monarchy to gather around. Is Vox Day going to lead militias from Italy?
In War, Monarchy is necessary. Adolf Hitler was a pseudo-monarch, that provided loci point of consolidation, unity, a nucleus and a Teaching authority. All necessary ingredients for armed organized resistance. The “right” in America, has nothing! There is no galvanizing figure of a Garbaldi, or a Franco, or a Mussolini, or a Hitler, or a de Gaulle. Garibaldi, Mussolini, and Hitler were Leftists. In order to conduct war, first there has to be a leader, second, moral enthusiasm, some sort of teaching that all galvanize to, goals to advance to. There is none of that in America. It is now proven that the American experiment has failed and has failed thru its two centuries. Not a single person of the so-called right, alt-right have rejected the tenets of the Enlightenment which was the cultural revolution that led to 1848. The American and French Revolutions were just that– revolutions! They ended Western Civilization! What Plan is there? Going back to the failed prospects of the American revolution? No one is prepared to return to Western Civilization!
The Catholic Church in America is totally lost, compromised with liberalism; it has lost all moral authority. All of Christianity is infected with PeeCee. One has to have a Faith to fight another Faith. The Left is a Faith. Faith in a progressive utopia of Peace. It is their Messiah. The Left/Marxists have a Messiah that they are willing to die for—their Utopian Paradise. “Liberty” is not a Faith. The Marxists today are crushing it. They own all the institutions. They win.
It is well to remember that Trump is a student of Sun Tzu who argued for “defeating the enemy’s strategy.” This means cutting the support out from under the cabal, which is what they indeed seem to be doing. If this is successful, no outright conflict would come to pass as the enemy would be unable to act in any meaningful way. We have been seeing evidence that Trump and his people are targeting the cabal’s support consistently and step by step. (the change of regime in Saudi Arabia for example) This bodes well for the future, assuming that the plan continues to unfold.
“I maintain that as of this moment, the idea of the population in America ever setting its own course of governance and power-assignation, even through struggle among the various players, is the American Myth.”
On a national level, agree 100%. A convenient and self-rewarding myth for the Elite to promulgate, and a myth that must be gussied up at all times in the shiny garb of patriotism. But when you examine individual skirmishes that take place on a day to day level, in congress and the courts and corporate offices, in dioceses and around the kitchen table, a different dynamic exists, and it is at the tactical level winnable. Tactics matter more, the skill of the attorney, the debater. And being aware of the sources that are funding your opposition. Take the example of Obergefell, the queer marriage “triumph.” Despite having the people on our side, we still lost. But it was a narrow decision, and now Trump is literally rearranging the game board by restoring (let us hope) some principle to the Law.
“As of right now, there are mechanisms in place for a select unknown few to seize total control, and call the outcome which will benefit them the most regardless of what everyone else would desire.”
One could argue that they already have taken control, that they did in 1913, or in Paris in 1789, or 1694 when the Bank of England, the “thieves of Threadneedle Street,” was chartered. Whatever interlocked mechanism constitutes the current manifestation of this secretive, elite group, it is underpinned and driven by money, the desire to not just maintain but continually increase the vast reserves that have been built up over centuries. It is this wealth that allows them to own the media, and the congress, the two central ingredients of modern totalist control.
“Until the freedom-lovers of the nation understand that (and the machinery Cabal employs fully understands what they are really doing, and for who), I am not sure there would even be a Civil War.”
Hard to see how there could be. Who leads it, who organizes it, runs its command and control? Let’s imagine a scenario where Trump goes full Franco; even then, would we see anything more than isolated terror, a few small-scale urban skirmishes that are immediately suppressed, arrests of Cabal leaders at street level (eg. antifa ‘leaders’). But a wide-spread war, Dallas vs Austin, Portland against Cheyenne that some people envision seems highly improbable.
Unless it serves the interests of Cabal to foment it. There is no doubt they employ a Divide & Conquer strategy against indigenous populations, and that for all the rightist twitter accounts providing rage porn images from South Africa or Chicago, it’s mirrored I’m sure on Black twitter and other leftist thinknodes with #virtuehating. It’s already well-known that Soros finances not just leftist (neoMarxist) think tanks, but also funds street-level violence against MAGA-hat wearing normies. Soros as leftist moneybagger is so glaring an example that I’m sure many have wondered why the loathsome toad isn’t simply Dallas’d. One reason, I’d argue, is that awful as he is, he represents only one head of the hydra. Far better to turn the tables and conduct Lawfare against him, constraining his ability to act against our interests and, ultimately, draining his financial resources.