I don’t judge Trump because he seems to play a lot of persuasion games to alter how people view things, before ultimately pursing the conservative path. But this was a slightly concerning interview:
Donald Trump, if you’ve read anything about him, to get his own books, read the real books not the tag jobs, the real books about him. He is one of the most charitable, kind-hearted men you’ll ever meet. He doesn’t wear it on his sleeve, he’s very quiet about it, but he is a very warm-hearted individual. He is not prepared to see young men and women who have not committed any crime of their own doing, be deported from this nation. He said to Congress, “Guys, let’s work this out.” Criminals, we get rid of them, and he’s absolutely adamant. You’re a member of MS-13, you’re a Dreamer who’s killed somebody, as has happened, you are going to be imprisoned or be deported. End of story. For those people who have not committed any crime beyond being brought here as a child by their parents, we’ve got to find a solution that comports with our Judeo-Christian charitable basis. Those are the things we have to understand about what the president is doing.
I can see how a kind guy like President Trump would feel this way coming from the world of a billionaire, and that worries me this guy may be right. We need President Trump re-elected, so in the event he has anybody watching blogs, I figure I’ll just throw out my thoughts.
There are two elements of Trump’s base he must pay attention to. One is the anti-immigration folks. Some are diehard anti-immigrant because they don’t like them for some reason. Many of those are like Adam Carolla and Joe Rogan who think Mexico sucks, and if we import more Mexicans, we will end up in a Mexican-like country ourselves. In truth, they have a point. Genetics plays a role in psychology and psychology plays a role in culture.
Most anti-immigration people are diehard pro-American though, and the Dreamers are seen as interlopers breaking the law and unfairly taking the jobs of Americans. This cohort of conservatives voted for Trump based on him being anti-immigrant. If he pivots, all of them will be substantially less supportive of him in the next election.
The other element of Trump’s base is diehard conservatives. Some want to see conservatism win because they believe in it ardently. Others hate leftists, think the democrats will ruin the country, and they want to see Democrats lose at all costs. This group sees politics as a war, between left and right. They will all oppose the Dreamers because the Dreamers are another 800,000 leftist voters. Though there is some bleed over, this is a much larger contingent of Trump supporters than the anti-immigration cohort from what I have seen, and they will see any effort to legalize these democrat voters as a betrayal of the entire conservative movement, in a time of war. It would be akin to treason in their minds.
Probably a smaller group, bordering on insignificant, believe in the rule of law and principle. Their feeling is nobody gets to break the rules, because it is bad for the system and unfair to everyone else. In a commentary on the times, they are probably the smallest group, and insignificant.
The real problem President Trump must grasp is, conservatives have become programmed over these last few presidential cycles, and this conditioning has imbued a specific set of neural pathways. Too many times, we have had a politician espouse conservative, anti-leftist ideals to us, we got in line to support him, and then he either turned around in office and reversed his position to support a leftist position, or he took a “moderate” pro-left tone in the campaign and never even made it into office.
As a result of this history, conservatives have a whole lot of hatred and rage-circuits burned into their brains, just waiting to be triggered by a perception of betrayal, and attached to whoever is seen as doing the betrayal. If Donald turns around, in what most conservatives perceive as a time of war, and legalizes 800,000 new democrat voters, those circuits will all fire up throughout the movement.
As the research shows, once you attach such an aversive stimulus pathway to a concept in the amygdala, you cannot destroy that neural pathway, unlike in other areas of the brain. An amygdala pathway which triggers aversive stimulus never degrades, unlike mere memory circuits. It is permanent. At most, with extensive deconditioning work, you can create a second suppressive-circuit to suppress the amygdala trigger, but that secondary pathway is always weak in its operation. The initial aversive stimulus is easily re-triggered through it – a circumstance which destroys the suppressive pathway, and fully reestablishes the trigger.
What this means is, from a cognitive neuroscience perspective, if Trump allows the DACA-recipients any sort of path to voting, a large swath of his base will suddenly have a very negative sensation attach to him related to betrayal. Once that pathway is there, all any subsequent opponent will need to do is press that betrayal button to elicit the sensation.
I voted for George Bush twice, and really liked him as a person. But when I think of how he destroyed the party to support democrats and polish his own “moderate” credentials, it doesn’t matter what he does going forward. Those angry sensations of betrayal and anger will rise, no matter how nice he may be, no matter what he does. He will now always elicit negative feelings in me, and I would never support him or his family again. For a more detailed discussion of that, ask President Jeb Bush about it.
In my opinion, George W Bush was actually worse for the future prospects of the Bush family than even his ultra-leftist father, because W. pretended to be one of us. We all knew H.W. was shaky. When he went left it was no surprise. But W. pretended to be a Texas conservative. When he ultimately refused to attack the left, let all their attacks go unanswered, and handed the Presidency to Obama, the violation of expectation of betrayal made the amygdala-pathway that formed so strong that the entire Bush dynasty was destroyed, and even the full backing of the Establishment could not resurrect it.
Then there is also the issue of all the conservatives who have been fighting with other conservatives, defending President Trump’s conservatism during the campaign. Others would say he was a New York liberal who was merely pandering on immigration, and would ultimately legalize all of those leftist voters and kill the party. If the President reverses his position, he destroys the credibility of his defenders within the conservative movement. That would be yet another betrayal.
This is a minefield which goes beyond mere persuasion. There comes a point where amygdala begins to become so high that persuasion is ineffective. If someone kills your entire family, you will have enough amygdala that they will never be able to use persuasion to change how you feel. For conservatives, America is being destroyed, freedom is waning rapidly, and it is all due to liberalism. Leftists now violently attack any conservative who speaks openly in public. Leftism is now an enemy which we view with as much hate as any enemy our nation has faced in history.
And the more somebody supported President Trump, the more likely it is they will feel that way. If he turns around and supports legalizing DACA recipients, and giving the left all those leftist voters, the strength of the blow to his supporters will be felt most by his strongest supporters. Those whose supported Trump most ardently because their amygdalae hated leftists most ardently, will suddenly find themselves triggered the most by President Trump’s betrayal.
He will, in one move, make his strongest supporters feel most betrayed by him. It is almost like they describe in Judo, where they use their opponent’s strength against him. Only in this case, President Trump would be turning his own greatest political strength against himself. Meanwhile, legalizing DACA recipients will gain him nothing politically from the other side. None of the leftist he is catering to will ever vote for him. I’ll bet even legal immigrants who just got citizenship don’t want to compete with these illegals for jobs, and would prefer nothing be done. And in these days there is no middle. Elections are all partisan enthusiasm.
My hope is President Trump is merely taking the high ground in the perceptions of the public, and he will now let Congress fail to do anything, leaving these people in limbo, without legal status. Hopefully they will be encouraged to self-deport at some point, all while President Trump seems moderate and supportive of the left. If he wants to create a program with payouts for leaving and a year of stipends to get them settled overseas as a consolation prize, that is fine. But these people can never vote, not without President Trump risking his reelection by losing his present base and ending up viewed through the same cognitive circuitry as Jeb Bush.
There is always the possibility, or with President Trump, probability, that this is a master-stroke. Indeed, if he lets us kill this in Congress, and then offers the DACA people stipends as they are sent back, then even as the left’s hatred of us reaches ever higher proportions, and they begin to look even more unbalanced as they attack our President, President Trump will seem even more moderate, compassionate and kind in the eyes of middle America.
Middle America will see a grossly unhinged left calling Trump Hitler, deriding him as evil, and calling for his death, while on the other side the public will see a moderate, nice, compassionate President Trump who tried to help the DACA people however he could, and who now has to deal with this psychosis on top of it all.
Played right, this could be the political masterstroke of a millennium.
Spread r/K Theory, because it is a political master stroke all itself
I am die hard anti immigrant because I don’t like them or their dirt world cultures (having visited many of them courtesy of Uncle Sam). I am also a die hard America first patriot., a chauvinist if you will. Further, I am a die hard conservative and believe that the Rights of Englishmen are worth protecting. Finally, I think the rule of law is an admirable goal and that the rule of laws/rule of judges we have is an abomination. What you say about betrayal is exactly on point: we elected Trump because of those betrayals by the GOP politicians and for Trump to join them means not only will we not re-elect him, we will stop protecting him from the impeachment that the DNC, GOPe, and the deep state want to shove down his throat. Trump has too many “advisors” telling him he needs to to “govern” a la the usual establishment means. Bullshit, Trump needs to lead. If he won’t, we will find someone who will.
Amygdala reminds me of the Roman conquests. And how Amygdala motivated both sides. And how the Roman methods may actually be necessary at the time in order to truly pacify regions. Given the human vendetta cycles that occur in history.
100% applaud the points made.
At the end of the day, it’s about rule of law. You can’t have 3 sets of law: one for the rich, one for the favorite identity class of the week, one for everyone else.
And I’m glad there isn’t a pro-Trump cult of personality here unlike some other internet places—like Reddit’s The Donald.
Its two things. First, we ARE in a war with the left. Second, its principles. Identity aside if you are running a town, business, kingdom, whatever- you have a duty to your people to take care of them first, if you chose the duty of being their leader. The American people need jobs. DACA people aren’t Americans. Democrats have too many fake American voters. Children of bank robbers don’t get to keep the stolen money. The “Dreamers” have had more than enough time to get in line with the legals. They didn’t. They gotta go back. If you’ve ever been in charge of something it’s hard to explain, but you know when you have it, that you must do your duty.
Trump is likely running Dread Game, as it gives him a win-win scenario he could live with even if his time in office ends without a single promise fulfilled.
If you look at how many folks are still expecting Trump to magically solve all the problems himself, it should not be surprising how feminine and submissive that mentality is. The rabbits all want someone else to get busy fixing everything so they can go back to eating and screwing.
Nobody wants to put in the work themselves to #MAGA, they’re still in rabbit mentality where that kind of work is counter-productive, and that’s a problem.
It’s like the youthful ignorance of a man or woman thinking that if they just marries the right person, everything will be set, and they won’t ever have to worry about anything again. At no point does the reality of the work they’ll need to do to help sustain the relationship pierce through the solipsism.
It’s highly feminine, and so is our culture in the USA at the macro level.
Look at the specific staffing changes, the constant rumors and leaks, the ongoing investigations, they are all part of selling the frame that Trump could betray his base any moment, or be removed from office at any moment. This has inspired people to double down on their original commitments, to work harder to secure their own political destiny, but also just like that young woman complaining about her latest unloyal jerk boyfriend, she still won’t dump him for the “nice guy” that’s her friend.
The “nice guys” are the idealistic option, often talked about but never actually chosen when push comes to shove and the girl wants to get laid. People keep thinking that if Trump fails there might be others, but that is just another rabbit mentality when one believes that there are a surplus of “good men” who just need to get into office and then they’ll work hard to save everyone else.
Trump is playing the whole country as if it’s his lady, and using Game to keep her in check. The reason this is a win-win for Trump is that if the people of the country just give up and stop trying, he won’t take any of the blame for the subsequent collapse of the country because the people not caring about their own political destiny was part of what got us here in the first place.
If folks do take things seriously, vote better, run for office, hold their politicians accountable, he’d win because the surge of civic responsibility would be credited to him, whether folks understood the actual mechanisms or not.
Put differently, Dread Game is introducing of K-stimulus in order to induce fear of loss and in turn spur on the competitive drive. He’s scaring people into thinking that they can’t even trust a President who is a “champion of the people”, so in order to survive they’ll necessarily place less trust in government and invest more in their own capacity, which happens to be exactly what is really needed to change course for the better.
You can’t get the K-shift underway when everyone still wants to be r.
If it didn’t look plausible that Trump could leave his base for the hottie in the swamp, people wouldn’t now be taking their political destiny so seriously, media figures wouldn’t be making overtures about running for office, and folks would not spend so much energy complaining about being betrayed and then running right back to Trump as soon as something looks bad that is beyond them.
The best part is that, even telling people this, explaining it to them, there’s no worry that the mechanism will stop working, because for the mechanism to stop working, we can’t need someone like Trump to use it in the first place.
We live in such interesting times.
Certainly appreciate this analysis. The aversive stimulus pathways in my amygdala have been working overtime. Your presentation of Trump’s possible gamesmanship has moderated the turmoil in my heart. Thank you for that.
And no matter what, he still ain’t Hillary!
“They will all oppose the Dreamers because the Dreamers are another 800,000 leftist voters.”
The Democrats’ proposed DREAM Act is more like 2-3 million. That is BEFORE chain migration.
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/polifact-flop-falsely-claims-daca-wont-lead-chain-migration/
Search for paragraph that starts with “According”
“Genetics plays a role in psychology and psychology plays a role in culture.”
Corrected for accuracy —> Genetics and environment play a role in psychology and psychology plays a role in culture. Depending upon a person’s perspective, there is argument over whether nature or nurture is dominant.
“This cohort of conservatives voted for Trump based on him being anti-immigrant. If he pivots, all of them will be substantially less supportive of him in the next election.”
Which was utterly foolish, given the fact that Trump’s companies have employed immigrants, some of them who are illegal, and the fact that Trump is a showman who merely catered to the crowd for his own purposes. Remember, Trump is an elitist who is influenced by Jewish interests.
“Too many times, we have had a politician espouse conservative, anti-leftist ideals to us, we got in line to support him, and then he either turned around in office and reversed his position to support a leftist position, or he took a “moderate” pro-left tone in the campaign and never even made it into office.”
Exactly, since our nation is center-right, not hard right or hard left.
“As the research shows, once you attach such an aversive stimulus pathway to a concept in the amygdala, you cannot destroy that neural pathway, unlike in other areas of the brain.”
What specific research? Citations please, NOT your own interpretation of studies that have little to do with your own premises. You have been known to take research and twist and turn their conclusions to “prove” your own point.
If it is in the book (and it is), and I rehash it often, I don’t bother to redo the citation every time. But that is established.
YOUR research, huh. “As the research shows, once you attach such an aversive stimulus pathway to a concept in the amygdala, you cannot destroy that neural pathway, unlike in other areas of the brain.”
Because that neural pathway can be altered so as the aversive stimulus is reduced in intensity, thus decreasing fear. Besides, your track record of research is, shall we say, dubious.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2856122/
I know as a leftist, you assume you automatically can show up and school everyone in any subject at any moment because you know everything, but you don’t know what you are talking about here. The base neural pathway is not altered. What is altered is that a suppressive pathway is created to suppress the initial aversive stimulus. Normally I wouldn’t waste time tracking down a cite for a leftie with a double digit IQ, but I suppose this could be fun.
See Whalen, P. J., Phelps, E. A. (Eds.), The Human Amygdala, (p. 205). New York : Guilford.:
That is pretty much the textbook on the subject of the amygdala, written by the handpicked experts in each facet of the field, so you must be feeling like quite a tool right now. I can’t imagine how embarrassed you must feel, what with your whole ego being invested so fully in being the expert who schools other people all the time. It might almost be as bad as election night, when you realized Donald J Trump had won by a mile because the entire rest of the country viewed you and your candidate as losers, and rejected you totally. And of course this makes liberals as a whole look like tools, so you have only reinforced that meme in the alt-right now. In the words of the God-emperor, his Grand Majesty, Donald Trump, “So sad!” You lefties just can’t catch a break lately.
Like it or not, I actually studied graduate level Cognitive Neuroscience and Neurobiology for more than a semester, although it was not my primary interest. And obviously I have kept read up on areas that interested me. Which means you can’t roll in here and bluff your way to victory when you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground.
As for the research here being, “shall we say, dubious,” cite your source. You’ve said it twice, so I assume it is more than just your opinion, or some anonymous post you mentioned on a message board, right?
Like it or not, r/K, Evopsych, and even perhaps I will be remembered in 300 years, perhaps as much as the Founders, though I doubt they will know me by name.
This is the very biological origin of politics, and it does explain everything. The fact you don’t like it should tell you something about your relationship to truth.
“I know as a leftist, you assume you automatically can show up and school everyone in any subject at any moment because you know everything, but you don’t know what you are talking about here.”
It is nothing short of amazing that you employ the playbook of the Coalition of the Fringes. In this case, you assume that I am a leftist, which is a classic Alinsky tactic. It is meant to disqualify, disqualify, disqualify the opposition. So sad! I am not a leftist, nor a liberal, but a white man with children who is a moderate and makes his own decisions about race and culture.
“Like it or not, I actually studied graduate level Cognitive Neuroscience and Neurobiology for more than a semester, although it was not my primary interest.”
Studying it and understanding it are two completely different things. Self-publishing a book using other than your real name about a topic makes you an expert only in your mind.
“As for the research here being, “shall we say, dubious,” cite your source.”
You do cite sources. But you take their conclusions and make your own interpretations of their results…which are unrelated to the actual research conducted. In other words, you shoehorn your conclusions based on these studies to form your own narrative. Basically, you make it appear that the research backs up your claims. And you have been called out on it.
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/06/28/rk-selection-theory-a-response-to-anonymous-conservative/
“Which means you can’t roll in here and bluff your way to victory when you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground.”
You initially talked about the neural pathway is destroyed, then backtracked and stated the initial neural pathway is not altered, but rather a suppressive pathway is created. Which to me means you read the source I provided, realized you were wrong, and then corrected yourself here. Destroyed and altered are different terms. Moreover, you cited Whalen to appear he supports your claim, when in fact he acknowledges later in his book research similar to the one I cited.
“Like it or not, r/K, Evopsych, and even perhaps I will be remembered in 300 years, perhaps as much as the Founders, though I doubt they will know me by name.”
You will be remembered only if you reveal your true identity, hock your wares openly and proudly, and work diligently to have the scientific community recognize your work as being legitimate. But we know you will give several excuses, and therefore hope that someone promotes your cause and attributes the ideas to you. Good luck.
I’m going to discuss this in it’s own post, so jump to the top of the page.
Stilicho–“Further, I am a die hard conservative and believe that the Rights of Englishmen are worth protecting.”
Assuredly people from different walks of life are more than capable of applying those principles in their daily lives as Americans, regardless if they are non-English. You, along with your guy pal Vox Day, have this notion that non-English people are other than capable of understanding and applying the RofE. VD says, “No other people shared the Englishman’s view of the law. The Northern Europeans didn’t grasp the concept of its theoretical limits. The Southern Europeans saw it as a racket to benefit the powerful and the well-connected. The Jews and Irish saw it as a game to be exploited for the benefit of their tribes.”
Interesting how few of his supposed high IQ Vile Faceless Minions dare question his rationale. So, my fellow white Europeans who are not of English descent, are you on board with his position? Is he not equating that YOU are refuse, that YOU are the tired and huddled masses, that YOU should have never received voting rights, with his insistence that a select few have the right to call themselves “Americans”?
Best wishes making this argument to today’s white Americans, that they and their ancestors are other than American, other than able to handle these awesome civic responsibilities. Indeed, white people will wake up and string up those on the Alt Right who tout this ideological stance that wreaks of solipsism, virtue signaling, and elitism.
Nate–Your entire argument is based on a false premise–Trump is employing Game and is thus in a “win-win” situation. As president, he will take the fall should our nation fall into a tailspin–that has been the mentality of the public toward any and all public officials. Moreover, increasing numbers of American citizens have been engaging in civic responsibility as a result of the problems that plague our nation. There has been a recent upsurge because of the lingering effects of the presidential race, one by which the voting public had to select between two historically flawed candidates.
“Look at the specific staffing changes, the constant rumors and leaks, the ongoing investigations, they are all part of selling the frame that Trump could betray his base any moment, or be removed from office at any moment.”
Which are directly attributed to Trump and his underlings for past shady deals. It is conceivable that the investigations could be a “witch hunt”, or they could uncover perpetual efforts to facilitate illegal activities. We will find out definitively by the end of his term.
“Put differently, Dread Game is introducing of K-stimulus in order to induce fear of loss and in turn spur on the competitive drive.”
K-R Selection theory is pseudo-science.
It has to be frustrating to you that Vox has about 400,000 daily views, and you are stuck commenting on minor alt-right message boards, with nobody listening to you.
Clearly you are projecting your own fear of insecurity. You have been programmed the past couple of years by far superior intellectuals who have ripped apart your K-R selection theory, and this conditioning has imbued a specific set of pathways. Anyone who dares to question your lie of thinking automatically triggers a fear response, one that involves lashing out to cover up your own significant lack of confidence despite the appearance of aggressive peacocking. Once you attach such an aversive stimulus pathway in the amygdala, you cannot destroy that neural pathway. An amygdala pathway which triggers aversive stimulus never degrades, unlike mere memory circuits. It is permanent. Thus, it is clear that you have a very negative sensation attached to anyone who remotely attempts to critique your theory and react accordingly.
“K-R Selection theory is pseudo-science.”
You know this is false
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