It looks like a new legal strategy:
The governor of the U.S. Virgin Islands has ordered the territory’s national guard to begin seizing guns and ammunition from citizens in preparation for Hurricane Irma’s landfall.
In an executive order signed Monday, Gov. Kenneth Mapp instructed Adjutant General Deborah Howell “to take whatever actions she considers necessary to carry out the assigned mission” of maintaining and restoring public order.
“The Adjutant General is authorized and directed to seize arms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary material and any other property that may be required by the military forces for the performance of this emergency mission,” the governor said in the order.
The order went into effect Tuesday at 12:01 a.m.
This seems to be a new strategy. New Orlean’s strategy of simply seizing the guns was knocked down by the courts, so here it seems the state is trying to declare it is not disarming people, so much as seizing property needed for a discrete purpose, to secure the public welfare. It seems a sort of eminent domain for individual arms.
It is worth noting if it stood, this would allow the state to raid prepper’s stockpiles, and reapportion everything for the public good. For that matter, it would allow the seizure of anything needed for survival by the powers that be, during a crisis.
It shouldn’t stand, so it is good to see it raised, so it can be litigated now before the collapse.
Not that it matters. When the shit hits the fan, and the stakes are life or death, whoever has any sort of authority will try to demand whatever they heard rumors that you have, all precedents be damned. And when the stakes are life or death, you will either fight to keep what you have, or you will die.
Hey Anonymous have you check this out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR61UgG2qi8
A Mock Debate between Stefan and Lauren Southern
I must say I think even know Lauren was pretending to be a leftist, she made a better cases. Three things I most spotted that she made a better case against free market. 1. The cultural decline, 2.People are more lonely and depressed and 3. Are Kids aloud to buy drugs in a free society? 36:00
I always wondered since reading your book and listening to Stefan on how a stateless / Anarchy society can work.
The society would need a lot of K’s and libertarians to make it work but I wonder how many generations it would last?
The society would become very rich, very fast with no government in the way. For each new generation work would be easier, require less hours and products would be cheaper and better.
Men that could not make with a girl in the free society would start to import foreign wives.
How many generations until the r become a sizable part of the populations? I would say by the 4th generations you start to get trouble and by 10 generations the society collapses (similar to empires in the book The Fate of Empires by Sir John Glubb).
Thanks for the link.
That is the problem in the world. Success will corrupt and breed failure. K into r, the decay of empires, whatever you call it, it is baked into the world.
This is why you have a part of your prepping specifically there to “donate” to authorities in case they seize them, and keep the real prepping supplies out of authorities sight, and this is why its important to make sure nobody knows you’re prepping, so when authorities come and seize your stuff, you give them something small but enough for them to be happy, cry about how are you going to survive and they’ll believe you don’t have more because most people are idiots and really aren’t prepared for anything.
And that is also why some people advise people to buy not only legal weapons, but also illegal guns so if authorities seize your legal weapons, you still have the illegal guns available to defend yourself. Unfortunately this seems to be the most sensible option. Disclaimer: I do not condone doing that, just sharing what I read and hear from preppers around the world.
Also, nothing stops you from making sure the seized supplies are “special”.
This. If they are looking for a win, give them a “win.” They know that you have something, because you aren’t spending all day begging from them. So you have to create the appearance. They know that you have guns, so buy some of your guns from gun stores, but also buy some from individuals (mixing up 4473s and non-4473s.) Make sure that you occasionally sell guns, and don’t try to hide it. You want them to be aware that your armory is fluid. That keeps them from knowing which guns you are hiding, and which ones you sold.
Same with food. While you are buying some food from Amazon and they know that you have a big stock of Mountain House, make sure that you buy some rice and wheat berries with cash at your local WinCo. Use your Mountain House, and keep the trash wrappers. You don’t want to put them outside and advertise that you have them anyways, but the wrappers give a good reason why you don’t have the whole supply to be confiscated. “That’s all we have, we ate the rest.”
For full spectrum deception, you need:
to hand over a win,
have things that they never knew you had that you don’t turn over,
have things that they know you have (because if you don’t have any Knowns they know you have Unknowns because no one has nothing)
have things that they know you had at one time and have used or sold.
Saw the governor of USVI on Tucker last night, and he clarified. He said unequivocally, seizing guns from private citizens violated the USVI code, US code, and the US constitution, and wouldn’t happen. His explanation was that the wording was necessary for the National Guard general in charge of operations to go around the normal procurement and purchasing regulations, and simply go and buy whatever they needed over-the-counter as needs came up.
His story was, 1, the USNG has all the weapons they need, their armory is fully stocked, and they don’t think they will need weapons anyways, and 2, if they needed more weapons or ammo or whatever, this provision allows the general to go and buy it over-the-counter from whatever dealer will sell it. He says he lifted it straight from USVI code to make sure that it was legally sufficient.
He might be lying, but he didn’t have a lot of double-talk and thinks that would lend to believe it was a lie. He seemed genuinely chagrined and frightened that his words were taken the way they were, and accepted that it sounded bad. Tucker probed his story in the usual manner, so it was a pretty thorough interview, and he didn’t waver. No one was taking guns in USVI.
I had heard that, but I also think the language of “seize” is a little strange, as is the idea the National Guard would need weapons or ammo in this age of every agency buying billions in ammo under contract. It might be standard wording for this sort of thing because if they don’t want to seize they can say it was misinterpreted, and if they do, well, look at the wording.
I wish we could see a parallel reality, and see what would have happened if there had been no publicity about it. My bet is, if they had unrest, that order being able to be repurposed on the fly would be no mistake, and I am not sure that post hurricane it wouldn’t have been a Louisiana situation if nobody had complained.
I’m not discounting the idea that it was planned, but I think that if it was, it was planned by someone other than him. The planning could go as far back as the drafting of the original code.
Legally, every seizure has to be compensated at fair market value (5th Amendment.) So it seems like the most legal way to buy things without Official Procurement is to “seize” it with “just compensation.”
Wow. Designed to be abused, when possible.
Using clubs is much less noisy then using guns anyway.